You make very good points, and you're the first person who's been able to explain to me why Spike is held to such a higher standard than anyone else. Thank you for taking the time to respond and give me your two cents; I really love discussions like this.

I disagree with you on a few points though.

Anya was forgiven for what she had done, despite them not knowing her. There were a handful of monster-of-the-week characters who were just arbitrarily forgiven for the shit they caused, many of whom ended up showing up later and continuing to do evil. I'm not saying you're wrong about the Scoobie's reasoning for why they don't trust Spike, and are harsher critics of him; I'm saying that they are being biased in doing so. Objectively they've forgiven people who have done much worse than Spike for much longer than Spike (mostly right now I'm talking about Anya), and who they never knew until after that person was a monster-of-the-week. It's the fact that Spike's actions had been in their faces for a while that convinced them he wasn't worth it.

Personally, I disagree that Spike didn't want to change. I know that he didn't understand 100% what getting a soul would be like, but where you seem to think he only comprehended about 10% of it, my bet is on something closer to 50-75%. He watched Angelus become Angel, and that wasn't an overnight process. Angelus received his soul and then tried to stay with Darla and continue being the vampire he'd been for so long, but he couldn't. There was a period of time where souled Angel was pretending to be soulless Angelus, and living with Darla, Druscilla, and Spike. He watched that, and he saw it fail, and he's seen the back and forth recently, and he's fought with Angel over it, and he's listened to Angelus about it. He's aware of how drastic a change it would be. I fundamentally think that that's what he wanted. He saw himself as being horrific for having almost hurt Buffy that way, and he hated the fact that he was the kind of person who could have done that to someone he loves, and he wanted to not be that person anymore. He wanted Buffy to love him, and I'm sure you're right that he thought maybe she could love him if he were more like Angel, but he also just wanted to be a better person.

I know we're probably not going to agree about that one; I get that that one is personal views and speculation, so I'm just stating that that's how I see it.




Finally, and the biggest one for me, Spike's intentions with regards to the almost-rape.

Buffy and Spike's entire ongoing sexual relationship was based in violence and false negatives. Spike has a sketchy (at best) grasp on the concept of consent, and Buffy knows that. She's known it since before they started having sex. The entire situation was based on the foundation that if Buffy wanted him to stop, she'd physically stop him. Her words lost any form of weight because she repeatedly contradicted her words with her actions, saying "no" "never" "ew" "you disgust me" "you're beneath me" and then forcefully and enthusiastically fucking him against a wall so hard the building fell down around them, with heavy implications that they continued fucking throughout the night. Then she says "We are never having sex again" and "Stop it" and "it was a mistake" "it wasn't good" "I hate you" etc. and then has sex with him in a public place, and then continues having sex with him all over the place, every single time saying "no" "stop" "I hate you" "don't touch me" and then enthusiastically participating in rough sex, much of which involved ripping each other's clothes off and literally fighting.

We were shown that their version of consensually rolling around in bed involved scratching and biting and hitting and fighting and dominance play. The message that she gave him is that "no" and "stop" don't mean anything, and neither does fighting, or yelling, or hitting, or ripping at clothes. None of those things imply rape to Spike, because all of those things have been consensual in the past. Every single one SHOULD be a red flag, but NONE of them are to him because of past experiences, and the fundamental flaw within him that is his lack of a soul.

Spike was already struggling with what was and wasn't okay, because up until this point he'd settled somewhat comfortably into the position that his chip would stop him from being bad. His chip showed him the line that he couldn't cross with the scoobies, which he-- as a soulless vampire-- couldn't deduce for himself. In their first sexual encounter, she proved that she's stronger than he is, and that if she wanted to stop him she could, which says to him that he doesn't NEED his chip telling him where the lines are with Buffy, because Buffy herself will enforce those lines.

It's obvious from his dialogue in that scene that this arrangement isn't actually sitting as well with him as he pretends that it is. He's saying, essentially, "every time we do this, you hate me until we're actually having sex, and then you act like you love me--" (remember that his ONLY experience of romantic love has been with Druscilla, and their sex life was not exactly normal. Spike's had sex with other people, but his experience of LOVE came from Druscilla) "--so can we just skip the hating-me part right now, because I really need you to love me right now."

I get that he was out of his mind at the moment. I get 100% that if he'd gone through with it it would have been rape. But in his mind, she wasn't unwilling, she was just doing the same song and dance that she always did, and he was trying to skip the foreplay (which he only really ever did for her sake, and which always hurt him) for once. Let me be clear that I'm not romanticizing what happened. It makes me kind of nauseous to think about, because it's terrifying. To me it's actually MORE frightening because it wasn't straightforward. Their warped relationship warped his comprehension of that situation.

As for him admitting it later, 1) he was admitting to and owning up to what had almost happened. 2) he was in full on guilt mode, and in that mindset everything you've ever indirectly caused becomes your direct fault. 3) the fact that Buffy blamed him meant that he blamed himself. He took her blame and her hate and her disgust and he internalized it. This is a thing that happens. I know a guy, who is an all around good guy, who got into a sexual situation that seemed completely consensual in the moment, and then afterward he was informed that the girl he was with stopped being comfortable with it about half way through, but didn't tell him. It wasn't by any means rape, but it wasn't a great experience for her, and he didn't know that until afterward, so he hadn't had the opportunity to make it okay for her. She had some previous trauma that made it hard for her to articulate her needs, which is also something he didn't know about until afterward. All around, this wasn't a case where anyone was to blame, it just sucks that it happened. He, however, blamed himself greatly and couldn't bring himself to have sex with ANYONE again for around five years, because he internalized the blame. If someone asked him about it, he would describe it like he'd been at fault, implying heavily that he'd assaulted her, which is not what happened. I can't take Spike's "confession" as law, because he's not a reliable source at that point, and because there is a high likelihood that he would have internalized the blame for that incident, especially considering his guilt-ridden state.

I'm not putting the blame on Buffy, but I also don't find myself capable of-- after looking at all the evidence-- saying that Spike knew it was rape and was doing it anyway.

I am interested in your views about this, and it's fine if you disagree, but on the subject of "was he intending to rape her?" unless Joss Whedon and James Marsters both say "Yes, Spike was doing what he was going with the full knowledge that he was about to rape her" you probably aren't going to be able to convince me to agree.

Thank you! I'm really glad that the drawings help rather than hinder my points. I want to be a comic/graphic novel artist, so I feel like this is a first step. Learning to illustrate my thoughts even in this small way is working toward that.